This interview is with Andy Mort, the founder of Sheep Dressed Like Wolves (www.sheepdressedlikewolves.com) and The Haven (the-haven.co), which are communities for introverts and highly sensitive people who want to make a creative and gentle impact on our noisy world.
Andy is also a talented songwriter. He has been making music and performing as Atlum Schema (atlumschema.com) for over ten years and has released four studio albums.
In this interview, Andy shares his insights on how sensitive creatives can bring their light into the world. I learnt from Andy’s answers and I think, you will too!
Hi Andy. I know that you are a ‘singer-songwriter’ and a prolific blogger and writer. You are also a part-time undertaker! Can you tell us a little more about yourself and what might be a typical work-day for you right now?
Ha yes as you might be able to imagine there is rarely such a thing as a typical work-day at the moment. The undertaking can mean I’m in work for 8 hours or that I have a day off, and I don’t usually know until the day before. So there are typical parts of my day that I’ve come to grasp with both hands! Mornings before I may or may not be in work. I get up at 5.30 am every day and write for a couple of hours.
It’s split into two sections: journalling where I just do a general brain dump that no one else will read, and then blog writing and podcast show preparation where I develop stuff for the website. I like to start the day, no matter what I’ll be doing after 8 am by taking control of it like that every morning.
Because I have a few different projects on the go and they are not all related I have recently begun employing a seasonal approach to what I do. I focus more heavily on one thing for three months at a time and attend with what I would call minimum viable focus to the rest. Right now I’m in a songwriting season so that’s where the bulk of my energy is going, so when I have a day when I’m not ‘at work’ (undertaking) I prioritise goals related to the season’s focus. As an approach it is definitely the most effective one I’ve found so far for me.
When did you first realize that you were an HSP? Did learning about it nudge you to make any changes in the way you approached your life?
It was about three years ago. I kept seeing this term ‘highly sensitive people’ in various articles I was reading. To be honest I kept seeing the word ‘sensitive’ and switching off. But then I actually read a blog post though I don’t remember where, and it gave a list of Elaine Aron’s self-test characteristics. I nodded to most of them. Then I read her book and realised that it fitted to a T. I had done the Myers-Briggs a few times and always came out INTJ, but knew that wasn’t the whole story because I didn’t relate to a lot of what is written about INTJ profiles. Elaine’s work added a very important piece to the jigsaw.
I guess it made me really seriously reflect on my decision making and the way I had been growing up. It validated a lot of stuff that I had been frustrated at myself for doing/not doing. I always lambasted myself for taking a while to warm up into situations and to try new things. But learning what it meant to be an HSP reframed the power of observation in my mind – I started to see it as a positive trait and my tendency to observe before jumping in represented a strength rather than a weakness. I had been called ‘reserved’ and ‘shy’ when displaying that behaviour as a child so discovering that it wasn’t shyness was a relief. There is a study that Elaine Aron talks about in the film, Sensitive where they look at the brain activity of children standing in a doorway observing a busy room before moving into it. Their brains don’t display signs of fear or shyness as people might expect. They are just taking it all in. That was a big revelation for me.
Looking back, how has your sensitivity proven to be an asset in your life and your work?
I would say it’s been a huge gift even before I knew what it was and when it felt like a curse or a burden. It has led me to create from a deeper place. The ability to notice subtle things, to catch moods of relationships and situations, and the empathy drive has always been an important part of who I am and what I create. In my music I think the unconscious noticing that goes on has led to some of my favourite moments.
People often ask what my songs are about. Sometimes I can’t say until years later when I’ve had distance from what was going on in my life and in the world when I wrote them. I can say what I think they’re about, but I’m usually wrong. I used to see it as a cop out that I don’t know what I’ve written about; like it somehow invalidates my creativity. But now I see it as a blessing. I think it’s cool that we can create and respond to our sensitivity in natural ways without interfering too much with the process.
It has always driven me towards meaningful work as well. I’ve always had a deep drive for work that has a sense of purpose for me personally; stuff I can justify beyond the paycheque. It hasn’t always worked out like that and I’ve always had a strong sense when I’m doing the wrong thing. I guess an asset has been the drive away from settling for stuff just because it’s convenient…which in the grand scheme of things is a gift, but can be annoying in those moments when I just want a nice quiet, hassle-free life.
You wear multiple hats successfully. How do you manage the overwhelm that seems to be a common HSP experience? Are there specific ways in which you have adapted your working style to suit your HSP needs?
Seasons, as I mentioned earlier, have been a useful perspective. These help with the overall projects, maintaining my focus on one thing at a time. I know many HSPs are also multipotentialites, with many different interests and passions they want to pursue. It’s been a way to maintain that part of who I am while making it manageable and productive.
In the day to day, I have found blocking time to be useful as well and having different focusses on different days and turning off all push notifications on my phone. As I said, I dedicate the early morning to writing, so that’s when I wear my creative hat. I don’t edit, I don’t schedule, I don’t look at emails. I just write. A couple of days a month, I have big planning meetings with myself about the posts I am going to write and then create decent outlines of each post/podcast. That way when I come to write I am not starting from scratch. There is something about that which makes it so much easier.
I set aside time each week to record the podcast and then to do the admin around scheduling everything. I know how long it all takes now so I am able to block that time out.
Finally I spend about half an hour at the weekend planning the next week. I write a theme for the week, create a to do list, prioritise it, and then block out all the time I’m going to need day by day. I would say habit and routine is key – when I am moving at a nice consistent pace things get done and I don’t get overwhelmed. The overwhelm comes when unexpected things happen or I have to do a 45 hour week at work and I’m shattered. I now have plans in place so that if that happens I will be able to keep everything going with minimal effort.
You are an HSP who puts themselves out there on a regular basis. How do you deal with negative feedback? Can you share any strategies that you might have developed over the years?
Yeah it happens unfortunately. My number one strategy is keeping an email inbox of positive and encouraging messages that I’ve received over the years. If I’m feeling discouraged and like quitting, which happens a lot, I just have a flick through and it reminds me of why I’m doing what I do. It’s amazing how much more poignant a piece of criticism is than a piece of positive feedback, but by building a pool of positive feedback it helps to counter it.
I do harvest the negative feedback as well. Is there anything helpful in there? How can I use it to learn and move forwards? And if possible I like to respond to people. Unless it’s the kind of feedback that is not feedback and is simply abuse from someone who just likes being mean. But I find negative feedback to be a really great conversation starter – it usually surprises people when you respond with grace and gratitude. Giving someone the opportunity to help improve something can be a brilliant way to create something positive. Often they realise it’s a lot harder than it looks!
I’ve come to not take negative feedback as personally shaming. It’s easy to take criticism and apply it in a way that says ‘I’m rubbish, I knew I couldn’t do this and that I’m out of my depth…I’m a stupid person’. Criticism is either useful and well-intentioned, or it’s simply a reflection of someone else’s chronic insecurity. Sometimes it can be both (the insecurity comes out in the tone and delivery); that is the hardest kind of feedback to process. And it is a process. It can take time. The first time you read something it may feel very personal, but come back to it a day or two later and it reads very differently.
As a creative person, how do you balance the time spent creating with the time spent promoting your work? Is there a different mindset that you bring to these two?
Yes there is a different mindset and I guess there are different mindsets between the different things I create. When I make music I don’t think about audience at all. I have found if I try to second guess what people will like then I miss the mark completely. Music has to come from within and be the creation of something that moves me.
When I’m writing a blog post on the other hand it’s still a deeply creative act but I’m thinking about communication. I’m wanting to speak to others and getting the balance of what I think I want to say and how to say it in a way that will help people to listen. So there is an element of promotion in that thinking I suppose. I want what I write to be shareable. I think about phrases I can use within what I write which might make a good Tweet or Facebook status, but then I guess that comes in the editing part not the initial draft.
I do a lot of scheduling when it comes to promotion too. I use Buffer and Co-Schedule to queue up links to my posts because I find that distance allows me to get into that mindset and batch process, but also hitting ‘schedule’ feels a lot less stressful than ‘publish’. I enjoy promoting stuff I’ve done if I know it’s helpful and appropriate. I don’t like to shout about myself, which is why historically I’ve been really bad at promoting my own music. It doesn’t have quite the same application as a blog post even though people benefit from listening to it in a deep way. You can’t quite sell it in the same way.
What advice would you give someone who is just starting out on their creative journey? How can they value themselves and their work even when it seems to “produce” nothing tangible for a long time?
Be patient. Grow your roots and value integrity above quick fixes. Be always learning from the mindsets of others who are doing what you want to be doing, but always be aware that no one is on the same journey as you. Don’t try copying their results, but do be curious about their mindset and ways of thinking.
You can take advice and learn, but you’re in charge and only you know what truly matters to you and your creative voice. Keep moving, experimenting, and exploring. Celebrate the small wins.
And journal! Keep track of your journey because I promise you, you are moving further and faster than you think you are. We humans adapt so quickly to circumstances that we think we’re stagnant when actually we’re making deep and meaningful progress that is going to yield great results down the line. So prioritise keeping a journal and keeping hold of all encouraging messages from people as you go.
Is there a way in which you define success that might be different from how it is normally defined? How did you come to understand what success means to you?
I guess I define success as making progress towards meaningful goals. It’s perpetual. I understand it not as a destination but as the process. I have experienced moments that I might have considered success over the years but it never feels like enough. Once I arrive somewhere I am thinking about what I want to do next. As I said, we are great at adapting to present circumstances. Success is always a let down if we think it’s a place.
So I’ve come to forget about this idea of success being somewhere I’m striving to get, and replaced it with a way of being I guess. It’s intrinsic and personal. Every year I set myself big goals. Success isn’t simply achieving them, it’s making progress towards them. That’s when I feel alive and happy. Not when I get there but rather when I’m intentionally on my way there. The goals are meaningful for me personally. They might not mean anything to anyone else. They’re not about extrinsic rewards, which are the common factors that we think of when talking about success (promotions, fame, fortune, recognition, awards etc), they are about building character and moving forwards with purpose and meaning so that I feel like I’m making a positive impact on the world in some way. My goals are based around how I believe I can best move in that direction.
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